29 Feb The “Mystery” of Angus Young’s Tone in “Let There Be Rock” The Movie
Heh. Dont tell me – well if you’re passionate that is – that this thought /question hasn’t crossed your mind at one time or another?
Well, if it has, here’s some of Franz’s and mine thoughts.
Thanks to the recent “discovery” of an image grabbed, analyzed and posted by member Dries in this post (here) it was a clear fact that the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System (SVDS) was there and it was ON during the concert.
WHY keep it on and right next to the amps if it wasn’t being used? WHY? I would never keep expensive things that I am not needing nearby. Too much confusion, especially at a concert where a movie is being shot with thousands of people.
And WHY is it TURNED ON???
Another interesting screen grab shows Angus coming out of the dressing van with the TX X10 on his strap.
Since by then the SVDS had been used on possibly every single live performance AND in the studio successfully, it comes more and more to mind the thought that there was a natural inclination of using such unit. Always.
Just as I had presumed right from the start, the though is that Angus relied on such unit for his sound. Period.
BUT we see Angus with a cable during the whole show. He WAS using a cable, no doubt.
But such cable, where was it connected into? The amp, directly?
And how can we describe and explain the “strange” sound coming from Angus? No one was ever able to provide a credible explanation so far, not even me.
Not until today, that is.
My thorough experimentaion with my SVDS systems has made such units become part of my hearing system (LOL) and I now do seem to hear the SVDS on THIS tone as well.
So here’s out hypothesis:
– Angus DID use the SVDS during the movie. The sound of the movie – Angus’ – is entirely based on the SVDS
– Probably due to some interference in the Paris venue, the Transmitter (X10) was put just next to the Transmitter (EX63) to allow for proper transmission. From the screen grab, it appears impossible to tell.
Angus would run the cable – a long one – from his guitar into the transmitter. Which is the way to go usually, though the TX cable is maybe (the stock, standard original one) 30 centimeters long.
– Angus used a 2203 (or more) for this show. The EX63 would input in fact into a 2203, and the SVDS was fully boosted.
Why a 2203 and NOT a 1959 like some think? Because with the t-tops like these, EVEN with the SVDS fully boosted, I am not able to reproduce this level of drive. There is NO way.
And after all, the two (2203 and 1959) of the time were based on identical – or very similar – circuits.
I am conducting (while doing 10 other things at the same time) experimentation as we speak.
Here to you a sound clip, made with one of my SVDS, TX set to full 10, boost set to full.
Amps setting will vary during this recording.
Starting with Volume at 8, Pre amp at 8 (then decreased to a more likely 6-7), bass 2, presence initially 6 then 2, mids 4 (at some time down to 0 then back to 4), treble initially 6 then ends up at 4.
Guitar volume all over the place, from 10 to 2 (you’ll hear this).
Guitar tone knob consistently at 3 (just how I think they set it at that show) and at some point lowered to 2 (common trick with Angus! i.e., tone knob closed both in the studio and live to variable settings).
Guitar was a 1971 SG Standard all STOCK with stock t-tops at around 7.x kohm.
Amp was a 1977-1979 STOCK 2203 (can’t remember the date of this one, I now have three lol).
To you some thoughts.
Adding “Whole Lotta Rosie” from the show, youtube:
aebmusic42Posted at 10:28h, 17 March
Correct me if I”m wrong, but was his swap-out guitar after the broken string not a 63 standard with 3Pu with the middle pick-up taken out, body sprayed black and scratch plate put on to cover it?!
WoofyPosted at 09:20h, 01 July
Hey, i created a similar tone (i think) like the clip you posted above Fil.
This is with Guitar Rig 5. Guitar straight into Line in of my PC.
Anyone can guess what pickups im using?
jonassweden1Posted at 18:38h, 13 September
I should add to previous post, at least not with mine. I understand they vary with specs and so on. But that raw overdrive from Paris?? Not a chance with my (stock) JMP at least. Also tested plenty of preamp tubes with various gain levels. Best – Jonas
bananePosted at 22:31h, 13 September
The replica will make it possible 🙂
jonassweden1Posted at 15:33h, 14 September
Hi Franz, yes this is what Fil is saying, Lol
So, Let there be rock! 😀
jonassweden1Posted at 18:25h, 13 September
Fil, marking your words around this which is key: “Why a 2203 and NOT a 1959 like some think? Because with the t-tops like these, EVEN with the SVDS fully boosted, I am not able to reproduce this level of drive. There is NO way.”
I might add to other members here (as I’ve discussed with Fil) – I’ve screwed around a lot with gain levels in my main JMP, and there’s NO WAY to get a JMP tone like Angus at Paris without a boost to the signal. That signal was, for Angus, quite a boosted signal. With a quality pedal, you’re in the neighbourhood. With Fils replica, even closer. The rest is in your fingers…. 😉
Cheers Jonas 🙂
AntPosted at 00:32h, 11 September
OK Chaps heres my findings 🙂
AntPosted at 00:36h, 11 September
funny looking thing, it sits high above phil and the control room is directly blow were the camera man is standing
DriesPosted at 10:17h, 11 September
This is indeed the stand with the antenna’s. 4 of them !
I’m wondering why… Even with 2, the range is pretty far.
bananePosted at 10:30h, 11 September
Well, a full kit came usually in a metal case with 4 antennas, signal cables and dividers so you could place the antennas all over the stage. The SVDS manual even contains hints for placing them.
DriesPosted at 11:37h, 11 September
Makes sense. Picking up amp noise perhaps?
SoloDallasPosted at 11:42h, 11 September
I think back then with SVDS they made sure as much as possible to use diversity at its maximum possibilities, to make sure no drop outs would occur; big antennas and the closer you can have them to the X10, the better! 🙂
AntPosted at 13:24h, 11 September
What do you guys think the device in the control room is?
looks simaler to the SVDS but to dark to tell, also the thing next to the red lights which what looks like the X10 anten cable hanging from it
Fil turn off you lights in your lab with the vega on and the X10 next to it to see if its the same lol
DriesPosted at 15:02h, 11 September
Will be some kind of rack device
AntPosted at 15:41h, 11 September
worth a shot 🙂
i think Fils tone example is pretty good evidence in itself to prove it was used its got that same texture to the tone to what you hear in the movie
although i have my doubts about BBB as i think its audio has been patched from a different performance
DriesPosted at 10:43h, 12 September
Could be, buth hey, wathever , its still them playing it 😀
AntPosted at 13:51h, 12 September
dam i want that tone so bad it hurts lol
SoloDallasPosted at 14:02h, 12 September
I know how you feel, it has been like that for me, too, in the PAST (MUAHAHHA).
Now it’s over, I have it. And since what I have NOW in my hands is incredible, you too – Anthony – are going to have THAT tone. It’s now a matter of little time (two months?). I have something in my hands, which is NOT old, but sounds like it. What is it, now?
AntPosted at 15:21h, 12 September
Big smile on my face. now my face hurts lol
The SVDS will rise from the ashes like a Phoenix of reincarnation and spread its wings of tonal epicness,
may the past gods of Rock gaze upon you in this triumph of immortal tone!
duno where that came from but im glad to be apart of it 🙂 well worth the wait of two months i would say, im still only 24 so i have my whole life to look forward to playing with the replica
SoloDallasPosted at 15:51h, 12 September
That was pretty much wonderful Ant 🙂
Well, you all know I always tried to keep feet on the ground but with this Replica I now have in my hands – been three days I think – I find it hard to remain calm.
This is all what I always wanted. It IS a faithful, super high quality 1:1 replica of the original SVDS.
It frankly, honestly and plainly sounds SUPERB. Incredible. Franz and Markus have made the miracle, they have made it happen. This is IT and then, some; it goes beyond as we hoped, because of lack of FM transmission: it can CLEAN BOOST even MORE than the original and the noise is almost NON EXISTENT.
Can finally say it, and will say it officially here in a while: we made it.
AntPosted at 16:24h, 12 September
Excellent news! So we can boost it further than the original?
would it be worth butting a gauge on the boost knob to indicate where the SVDS’s limit was? just for accuracy of tonal searching
bananePosted at 16:28h, 12 September
Yes, the boost goes further than the original.
Good idea, maybe we will actually put such marks abothe knobs.
John585@gmail.comPosted at 00:24h, 11 September
Sorry about this if it sounds silly- but whats a t-top? (besides a funky type of sun roof seen on an 80s Camaro!)
AngusrocksPosted at 18:50h, 11 September
a t-top is a Gibson humbucker of the late sixties early seventies. Gibson SGs of that time have t-tops.
John585@gmail.comPosted at 22:02h, 12 September
Thanks! Looked this up and am now up to speed.
I wonder how it compares to the Gibson 57 Classic PAF, and the Plus variant?
AngusrocksPosted at 15:26h, 13 September
is not much different compared with the 57 classic or the Angus Signature humbucker.
Not really worth to get one…….
DriesPosted at 17:54h, 08 September
Another proof Angus used the wireless.
Antennas come from a vega wireless system. !
Looks like they mounted them high.
SoloDallasPosted at 18:06h, 08 September
AngusRudd1019Posted at 20:38h, 08 September
Uh OH!!!The discovery has been made…So he must have been running the cable into the receiver somehow and than from the receiver to the amp…
bananePosted at 22:33h, 13 September
Yes! Maybe he broke the receiver or some other accident happened.
DriesPosted at 00:12h, 14 September
No , just cable into transmitter and tX nearby RX.
there is no input in the receiver.
bananePosted at 00:17h, 14 September
Oops, true, didnt read it correct. Yes, cable into receiver isnt possible. And the magic is done on both sides, transmitter and receiver.
AngusRudd1019Posted at 03:46h, 14 September
Ahh I see
AntPosted at 14:21h, 09 July
Just want to put an update on this, was watching the show couple of nights ago and spotted somthing in the control room during HtH bout 1/3 of the way through
red lights simaler to the SVDS, to dark to tell exactly what but might be it?
your thoughts guys 🙂
SoloDallasPosted at 08:15h, 09 September
Screen shot Ant? Can you?
AntPosted at 22:39h, 09 September
Will try :), how can i add it to the comments? Ta