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IYWB “Live” album content: Overdubs and studio tricks? (NEW evidence!)

29 Aug IYWB “Live” album content: Overdubs and studio tricks? (NEW evidence!)

Hello folks.

Just writing up this article to discuss a few rumours and facts about the “If You Want Blood” live album

Marcus (username Mackollas) and I, while casually talking, realized that “Whole Lotta Rosie” is, perhaps, the most obviously “patched up” track for a very tangible fact: It is, basically, the edited LTBR LP version.

Now… wait… Just wait…. Before you start jumping at me with “WHAT??” or “Are you nuts/ insane/ f*cked up???”, please listen to this file:

[jwplayer mediaid=”8246″]

This is the intro of the IYWB version (slowed down, so the pitch is lowered) followed by the studio version.

Note how the final A of the riff second time around is longer and then the third run of the riff is stiffer on both versions.
More importantly: The guitar tone is EXACTLY THE SAME.

Later on, the “She’s got it ALLLLLLLLLL” line also matches the studio version 100%

[jwplayer mediaid=”8251″]

“BUT…. The solos are different!!!! They can’t be the same!”

Here:

[jwplayer mediaid=”8249″]

[jwplayer mediaid=”8252″]

Just listen to it carefully. No need to even compare to the studio version.
The tone is also 100% the same. It’s even scary. It IS that very same “overloaded mic preamp” sound.

And a more stupid giveaway. listen to Malcolm missing the chord slightly here:

[jwplayer mediaid=”8247″]

 

What does this mean? The instrumental rhythm part is simply the sped up (and slightly edited) album version, but with different solos and vocals.

So… what these solos are exactly?

My bet: They are unused outtakes from the LTBR sessions.

Also, let’s consider this: as much as Angus always change up the solos live, he always keeps the same “formula”. If you listen to ALL the “Whole Lotta Rosie” versions from 1977, through the ’80s and up to today, you will notice they always start with that signature rhythmic riff.

Instead, here, we have that messy (yet powerful) “C notes followed by an A note with vibrato” lick. Why only during this night? Why didn’t we ever hear it again ever since?

Plus, the solo as a whole on the “IYWB” live album is considerably “more primitive” (structure-wise) than either the final studio take or the later live versions. So, we can assume it was an earlier outtake, perhaps even from the same day.

 

What about the vocals? Well

Rumours say that many backing vocals were also re-recorded for the album. Some cite “Rock n Roll Damnation” as one of these tracks. I’d dare to say that “High Voltage” could be another example. After all, being as good as they are at guitar and bass, Malcolm and Cliff are not exactly good singers.

It’s important to remember that it was a common thing for the band to use “instrumental” versions of their songs as playback during TV promo clips, while Bon would do his vocal performance right at the spot.

The first assumption we can make is that, most probably, the vocal track of “Rosie” was also especially recorded for this version. The very demanding “she’s got it all” line just after the intro is the same as the original studio track, so maybe Bon couldn’t get that line right during this possible 1978 session, forcing them to re-use the LP version line.

Another possibilty is that the vocals also could be LTRB session outtakes.

 

The shorter ending can be explained as well: seemingly, it was chopped off.
You can hear Bon’s wail stopping exactly at the same time as the band changes from the G# note to the closing A chords. A coincidence? Maybe not.

This fact may suggest that the vocal track really is from the LTBR sessions, because if it was recorded for the IYWB album, maybe the final “Rosieeeeee” wouldn’t stop so suddenly.

Another thing is that Angus’ transition from the G# note to the closing “mini-solo” doesn’t sound very natural either. Usually he would play a longer solo, building up until it reached that boiling point.

Of course. this is only speculation of my part, though.

 

Another giveaway? This time it’s Phil Rudd who gives us a clue. Listen to the final drum fill (first, the “live” version, then the studio one and, finally, the two together):

[jwplayer mediaid=”8285″]

 

UPDATE!

I never thought I could manage to do this, but it was easier than I thought. I just had to adjust the speed and cut the end… well… This is the final evidence:

[jwplayer mediaid=”8286″]

It’s amazing, but the quieter part of the solo is also the EXACT SAME take as the studio one. Just note how the guitars are perfectly in synch and the palm mutes happen at the exact same time.

 

BUSTED!

 

So… Is the whole album “FAKE”??

 

No. Quite not. It’s a very common thing for bands to “edit” their live performances before releasing them. As controversial as this fact may be, it’s more common than we usually would like to imagine.

The other detail is that “Rosie” is the ONLY track that has a slightly higher pitch, so this fact itself says quite a lot. .

So, all in all, this was not the “Whole Lotta Rosie” the audience at Glasgow heard.

The question now is: Why was this done? Perhaps something happened with the original recording? Or maybe they didn’t perform it well? Maybe we will never know.

But simply using the sped up studio track with a different vocals and solo is beyond anything I could ever imagine. They could have replaced it with “Dog Eat Dog” instead, or even use the extended “Rocker” solo to fill in the missing time. Yet, this is what we got instead.

But then again, Rosie has always been a fan-favourite, so maybe they couldn’t let the album go without it.

On the bright side, we got an amazing “Alternate Studio Take” to listen to. :)

avatar
André Heiji
andkoz2010@hotmail.com

Life is music.

58 Comments
  • avatar
    jonassweden1
    Posted at 12:47h, 31 August

    “And a more stupid giveaway. listen to Malcolm missing the chord slightly here”

    Everyone, THAT’s a rarity……. Lol 😉

    Cheers –
    Jonas

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 10:52h, 03 September

      might of been tweaking the volume, i noticed he does this live occasionally, he deliberately misses a chord to make a change

      but indeed would be a rarity if he did 😛

      • avatar
        Spellbound
        Posted at 04:05h, 05 September

        What other times does he do this? I’ve never picked up on it. Only times I’ve ever heard him miss a note live was during Gone Shootin’ at the VH1 studios, and during Meltdown at some show on the SUL tour.

        • avatar
          Ant
          Posted at 09:49h, 07 September

          Donnington 92 High Voltage i think, been a while since i seen it but remember thinking the exact same thing :) its while the camera is on Angus but you can hear Malcolm miss the cord completely

        • avatar
          ACDCROCKS4EVER
          Posted at 07:47h, 03 July

          And I think he did at the concert in toronto in 1990 (09-11-1990) during Let there be rock (when angus goes to the crowd), angus had issues with the guitar, so angus went off then came back on the stage about 5 minutes later. Malcolm misses a note before angus was about to do his solo. But unfortunately as angus was about to do the solo but his guitar screwed up on him again. So the band went off the stage and came back on Highway to Hell, Angus was up on the amps for the rest of the concert to make sure that nothing technical happens again.

  • avatar
    Devil'Fingers"
    Posted at 11:21h, 31 August

    Drum fills at the end are different…..

  • avatar
    Caleb
    Posted at 09:12h, 31 August

    There is absolutely no doubt that there were studio pieces used for the live tracks. That drum fill comparison says it all

  • avatar
    nitroangus23
    Posted at 23:06h, 30 August

    I think Rosie is all studio,with an overdubbed solo or possibly a LTBR leftover.

    It sounds different than the rest of the album.

  • avatar
    sellen
    Posted at 20:00h, 30 August

    Have always suspected a studio fix on this album. But it is a great album anyway.
    great article!!

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 19:45h, 30 August

    Alright…. I guess this is definitive.

    New evidence: Phil Rudd’s track.

  • avatar
    deni91
    Posted at 19:30h, 30 August

    “… being as good as they are at guitar and bass, Malcolm and Cliff are not exactly good singers …”
    You are right, absolutely. I don’t love that much on the LTBR movie’s Walk All Over You, it hurts my ear a bit, so usually I skip that track. But nobody is perfect, they are all great musicians. Some say, you could set your clock to Phill Rudd’s drum rhythm, and that’s actually true :).
    With IYWB, I have never compared to LTBR, but I thought it, that it’s very close to studio version with Rosie. Nice article :).

  • avatar
    Dries
    Posted at 17:36h, 30 August

    Wow. This is it. Really outstanding

    This makes sense. Never heard that kinda solo structure anywhere else live. It reminds me a bit of the riff-raff studio solo.

    But if the other tracks are really live takes, it must have been difficult to match the guitar tones.

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 16:03h, 30 August

    Alright. Edited the article into a more neutral and formal write up rather than a “the sky is falling” rambling. lol 😉

  • avatar
    GoingDownOnTheWay
    Posted at 12:23h, 30 August

    Has anyone noticed that the end of the IYWB version sound kind of chopped?

    Jaiminho, great find. The tone matches and everything seems to fit.

    However, I do not think that it’s a mixed original-left-over-studio-outtake version. The vocals sound different, they do not match at all. Even with heavy EQing, Bon’s voice is totally different. Why should the rerecord vocals but not guitars?

    And we should not forget: This is AC/DC, the rhythmically (is that the right word? :) ) most perfect timed band ever.

    Something is wrong, or let’s say ‘different’, with that song. But even fans who have been listening to AC/DC for decades cannot tell where a recording was taken because they always sound like AC/DC no matter what location they played, what gear they used or how they set up their amps. User currentpeak pointed that out, the interview he linked is a great source of information.

    So my guess would be that this is either a chopped live version or, more likely, as the guitars have almost the same sound as in the original, a chopped studio outtake.

    Cheers 😉

    ps: Please bear with me, I have not written anything in English for ages.

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 15:33h, 30 August

      Yeah. It does sound a bit chopped. It’s shorter than the original version anyway.

      If you watch many old promo clips of the band (TNT and Dirty Deeds from Family Jewels, for example), you’ll hear that, very often, the guys would use a playback without vocals and Bon would do his performance right at the spot.

      This could have been the case here. Maybe the vocal track was recorded especially for the album. As it seems, the “she’s got it all” line is the same from the LTBR LP. Maybe Bon couldn’t get that line right again in ’78, so they re-used the one from the ambum there.

      Vocals are also considerably easier to record than the other instruments, so maybe that would be a reasonable explanation.
      There are rumours saying the backing vocals were recorded in a studio as well, so this makes a lot of sense.

      As for the instrumentral track itself, it sounds too identical to be a different performance. As tight as AC/DC is, it’s humanly impossible to play a song the same way twice, let alone make the guitars sound exactly the same.

      Haha. No worries. I consider my English borderlining acceptable at best, anyway! haha.

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 19:11h, 30 August

      Listened to it again now…. and you are right.

      Bon’s voice stops at the very same time as the Young Bros “go” to the final A chord. lol

      Sounds really like a cut to me.

  • avatar
    nitroangus23
    Posted at 03:56h, 30 August

    This rumor has been around for a long time and has been discussed quite a bit by myself and others over at acdcfans.net,and I like your arguments.

    Pretty much all the proof the non-believers need, lol.

    It is for sure a LTBR outtake with some trickery.

  • avatar
    DC/79
    Posted at 01:04h, 30 August

    Bloody hell…we’ve known for 34 years that Rosie is doctored, the bolloxed up timing edit/ending, mising Angus end chord and the fact that it is obviously the same recordings as the Let There Be Rock LP for the beginning have been common knowledge since I was 15 (1979) at least! Where have you been???

    • avatar
      banane
      Posted at 12:19h, 30 August

      Hehe, then it’s a forgotten fact. I was 9 years old back then and Andre (the author of this post) didn’t even exist. Any more infos/stories on this?

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 15:16h, 30 August

      Well…. then sorry for making it sound as if it was something new, but it was new to me anyway…

      • avatar
        banane
        Posted at 15:23h, 30 August

        No worries, it WAS news for me and very likely for many other members too. Besides that, it proves that the people back then didn’t had better ears :)

      • avatar
        SoloDallas
        Posted at 09:05h, 03 September

        Andrè,
        it HAS been completely new (this specific find of YOURS) to me. I had never even thought of it. There was rumor on the net about it though. I remember DemonUFO telling me about it months ago, for example.
        Don’t be sorry, and thanks 😀

      • avatar
        Tyler
        Posted at 22:32h, 03 September

        It was news to me. I would of never thought but im convinced now. Great find man!

  • avatar
    Ayakisg
    Posted at 23:33h, 29 August

    He Guys!

    Just another something. We always say – Angus use only the bridge pickup. So – watch the video at 4:19. Angus on the neck :) And ORANGE amps and cabs :) :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RZRe-DpMBk&feature=g-vrec

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 23:35h, 29 August

      Yep. He always did that back in 1976 and 1977. :)

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 22:49h, 29 August

    Well guys…. It was not only the solo, that’s for sure.
    The whole thing is the studio version (at least the rhythm guitars). There’s no way to deny that. The little playing imperfections just match perfectly. Only the solo is different.

    Will compare the Bad Boy Boogie from the album with the one from the video to see if I can spot any difference….

  • avatar
    currentpeak
    Posted at 22:45h, 29 August

    “Can you tell us about the concert at Glasgow on April,30th 1978 ? do you have any memories of filming? How was the atmosphere ?

    That was my first AC/DC concert and Im sure that concert was the one recorded for the live album If You Want Blood because I remembered the guitar lead buzz at the begining of Riff Raff which was the opener and when I was having a chat with Malcolm I mentioned to him that I thought a lot of the album was taken from that concert and he told me that the whole album was taken from the Apollo concert apart from one guitar solo on one of the tracks which was either A Whole Lotta Rosie or Let there Be Rock which was taken from the Hamersmith Odeon apart from that he said the whole album was from the Apollo. Do you know I have very little recolection of the filming as I was so engrosed in the atmosphere, the place was absolutely bouncing and I was doing a lot of air guitar playing which I must say I was pretty god at.”

    Source: http://www.highwaytoacdc.com/index.php?articleid=1877

  • avatar
    Spellbound
    Posted at 22:16h, 29 August

    I actually thought that this was something well documented in the AC/DC community – that IYWB has A LOT of studio work done on it, and that the Rosie solo was a copy and paste. Almost all of the album was sped up, and if you go on you tube, you can find the original version of Bad Boy Boogie, unaltered from the Glasgow show.

    Fire Your Guns from Live at Donington (DVD/Blu Ray)is another track with a cut/paste solo, but in my opinion it sounds awful. The original solo (hear don the VHS version/LIVE album) sounds much better.

    • avatar
      Spellbound
      Posted at 22:20h, 29 August

      Although about the Rosie solo, I’ve read that the one on album wasn’t a studio outtake, but was actually recorded from a different gig, in Hammersmith I believe? Of course it’s just a rumor, but I figured someone would be interested in hearing that lol. :)

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 23:14h, 29 August

      At least I have never read anything clear about it.

      Was the album really sped up? Isn’t it on Standard A=440 tuning anyway (apart from Rosie)?

      Live albums are always a touchy subject. LOL

      • avatar
        Spellbound
        Posted at 23:27h, 29 August

        Yep. Like I said, the unaltered version of BBB is on you tube, it’s slower than the album version. Bon sounds higher pitched through the album too, which hints at the pitch being raised slightly due to making the songs a little more sped up.

        • avatar
          JaiminhoPagina
          Posted at 23:31h, 29 August

          Yeah. Will listen more carefully later, but apart from that difference in speed (that is not that huge, anyway), I didn’t notice any significative diferences on the performance itself.

          Need to listen more carefully though.

          But all in all, that one is still a HELL of a great Live album! 😛
          With a nice Alternate version of Rosie, that is. LOL

          • avatar
            Spellbound
            Posted at 00:53h, 30 August

            I’ve heard the backing vocals for the album (or RnR Damnation at least) were done in studio too, but that’s just another rumor, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.

            This album has a lot more studio edits on here than Donington did imo. Like you said, still one kick-ass live album!

            • avatar
              JaiminhoPagina
              Posted at 15:13h, 30 August

              I wouldn’t be surprised about backing vocals. Cliff and Mal aren’t exactly good singers.

              “RnR Train” from Live at River Plate is another example.

              • avatar
                banane
                Posted at 15:15h, 30 August

                Maybe they should let Phil sing 😉

                • avatar
                  Spellbound
                  Posted at 22:37h, 30 August

                  I quite like Mal and Cliff’s vocals, they blend together perfectly (along with Phil whenever he jumps in) and make the choruses catchier.

                  @Jaiminho: LARP backing vocals seems to have been taken from the actual albums they were from (i.e. RnR Train/Big Jack/War Machine from Black Ice, You Shook Me from BiB, etc.) with REALLY heavy reverb on them, for IYWB they were retakes during the editing process.

                  @Banane: Phil’s singing always gives the song a “cool” kind of vibe to it. I wouldn’t be against hearing him on the next album!

  • avatar
    banane
    Posted at 21:27h, 29 August

    Very interesting finding. Didn’t listen yet, but will do tomorrow, its too late to crank the speakers here. Well, perhaps there was a problem during the show (sound outage, whatever) and someone made a stupid decison to doctor up a “live version” of “Rosie” instead of using alternative songs.
    But Fil is right, as long as there are no keyboards… :)

  • avatar
    adam10603
    Posted at 21:18h, 29 August

    I think you’re not right!
    I’ve listened to the ’92 Donnington concert on YOUTUBE a lot. The clips from the concert on youtube contain the actual audio from the concert. It was recorded in the same time as the video.

    Recently I downloaded the Live at Donington album, which is supposed to contain the same live audio from the concert, obviously. But guess what… it sounds totally different! The solos are different. The vocals are different…

    I think the reason for this is that they might have thought that the live sound was not that good. So later in the studio, they overdubbed many parts of the original live audio, and put this live-studo mixture on the album.

    This is all true. Listen for yourself

    I think the IYWB album has a similar story. They did the concert, which was 100% live, and they recorded it. But later they maybe found out that it didn’t sound quite right on the recordings, so they enhanced the clips. But instead of overdubbing, they simply enhanced the live clips by mixing them with the already present studio recordings of those songs

    This is the way I think it must have been :)

    • avatar
      adam10603
      Posted at 21:23h, 29 August

      Sorry, I mean you’re right! 😀 mistyped it. lol

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 21:56h, 29 August

      According to Wikipedia (lol), the “Live” album is not from Donington only. It lists: Dublin, Auburn Hills (Detroit), Glasgow, Edmonton, and the Donington and Moscow “Monsters of Rock” shows.

      So, it doesn’t count! lol
      Kidding :)

      Well… It seems to me that “Rosie” is the only “patched” track from the “IYWB” album anyway :)
      Can’t be sure, but it’s the only one that sounds so. There’s that massive cut on “Rocker” too, though. hehe.

  • avatar
    SoloDallas
    Posted at 20:48h, 29 August

    Just got back from San Diego (last night), terribly jet-lagged 😛
    Haven’t listened to it yet, just read the whole thing. It may well be possible! I am not shocked. Several rumors have been existing for a long time about IYWB, it not being fully live etc. And in those times, people used to do that with albums (Zeppelin’s live album was completely re-recorded in the studio). Don’t be sad! As long as there is no keyboards… it was played by the Young brothers!!!! 😆 😀

    • avatar
      JaiminhoPagina
      Posted at 20:52h, 29 August

      Ah. Hope you had a nice trip :)

      Yeah. Been on that boat already.

      Led Zep’s album was not really re-recorded. it’s simply different nights spliced together as a whole thing (three nights on TSRTS and two different gigs on HTWWW). There’s a nice site called “The Garden Tapes” with a long and careful study about it. Have the bootlegs on my computer and confirmed all the info. hehe 😛

      Already used to “treated” live albums anyway – lol

    • avatar
      adam10603
      Posted at 21:21h, 29 August

      Hey, glad to have you “on board” again 😀 Welcome back Fil! Hope the trip was nice :)

      • avatar
        SoloDallas
        Posted at 09:08h, 03 September

        Thanks Adam! Re-reading all of this only now, finally getting it all together again in Italy 😆

        Back to work!

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 20:27h, 29 August

    One of the most shocking AC/DC findings ever! :S

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