fbpx
 

LTBR/’78 Glasgow Tone DEBUNKED! (Updated, shocking)

16 Apr LTBR/’78 Glasgow Tone DEBUNKED! (Updated, shocking)

Update: found this:

[youtube]4TtTe6i2pg0[/youtube]

Would rule out LTBR having been recorded with the Vega. Even Angus confirms that he was given the Vega at the Palladium concert in NY (after recording LTBR).

___________________________________________________________

SUPER UPDATE on the Glasgow (and possibly, LTBR TONE! EDIT: given the above interview, LTBR wouldn’t have been recorded with the Vega. The Vega was acquired later).

Hagen: I was wrong. You were right. LOL. I am saying it, LOL.

I had not tried the Vega Recevier boost capability with the 2203 yet; it was you guys suggesting about the 2203 (read in the below update: I had set the Recevier boost ouput to zero db). I have just done it, as I was thinking… if the 2203 is so powerful and trebly, maybe… just maybe…

well,  IT IS (was) A 2203 BOOSTED BY THE VEGA!

We have (talking about Glasgow 1978): pictorial evidence of 2203s for Angus. Pictorial evidence for the Schaffer Vega.

SOUNDS SPOT ON.

Listen. So, there is NO TREBLE BOOST!

Whole Lotta Rosie Glasgow 1978 – VEGA AND 1978 2203

It sounds 10 times better! It’s just identical now. Don’t you think???


 

Now, the doubt I have then is that maybe even Let There Be Rock was recorded entirely with a 2203 AND The Vega just arrived? But it is not in accordance with what Bon says, that the first time he saw Angus with it it was at some Palladium concert.

However, we know also that Bon always tried to be sensational, as in, letting the public think that Angus would use the unit the first time Live. It may just not have been so and Angus could have used the Vega in the studio, for the first time, for Let There Be Rock (stay tuned on this).

Will try LTBR with the Vega and see what comes out.

ALL of what comes below is WRONG!!!! I am leaving it for mental honesty and a laugh: there was NO boost at Glasgow. It was Angus’ Schaffer Vega with a Marshall 2203.

What turns out as simply amazing though is the fact that… The Vega is wonderful!!!

Definitive settings:

Used:

– 1978 2203 in stock condition. Settings: presence 0. bass 5, mid 5, treble 5, master 6 preamp 6 (very interesting super regular settings!)

– Gibson SG ’69 custom with AY sig pickup in bridge; settings: rhythm 8, solo 10

– Vega Wireless; settings: TX at 3 o’clock; RX with rear boost set to +20 db;

 

 

Signal path: guitar cable into Vega TX; Vega TX sends to Vega RX; Vega RX boosts +20db and goes into high sensitivity channel 1 in 2203.


 

 

________________________________________________________

Please note: all of what you may read from here on, is a crazy man’s mental fabrication. You be warned, there is no truth to the following. The truth is above. Thank you, Fil :)

Re-did it now.

Well what do you know… IT WAS certainly a 2203. Brightness came in on its own. Amazing. Thanks Jon, George and Rob for pointing this out to me strongly!

Whole Lotta Rosie Live, 2203, Vega Treble Booster

So let’s summarize this up for the ’78 Glasgow live exclusively for now:

There seems to be a treble booster on Ang’s strap, and certainly the sound matches with it. Without it, it’s impossible: there are “cranked” frequencies that are plainly audible and can NOT be obtained otherwise.

Used:

– 1978 2203 in stock condition. Settings: presence 0. bass 5, mid 5, treble 5, master 6 preamp 6 (very interesting super regular settings!)

– Gibson SG ’69 custom with AY sig pickup in bridge; settings: rhythm 8, solo 10

– Vega Wireless; settings: TX at 3 o’clock; RX with rear boost set to 0 (zero) db; no boost from the Vega here (only on TX)

– a germanium treble booster at 2.5 o’clock

 

Signal path: guitar cable into treble booster; booster ouput into Vega TX; Vega TX sends to Vega RX; Vega RX into high sensitivity channel 1 in 2203.

 

End.

Imho, we’re there. We’re just there.

 

EDIT: examining Jon’s flickr photos, it appears that the box is not silver; might have been a reflection of lights in my first poor image below.

It appers to be a leather black case. Now I am uncertain though. It may be the Vega. If so, this would throw me in more confusion. Although, the treble booster might have been in the back (makes sense anyway). I just hear the booster.

However, how to explain the jack unplugged in Fling/Rocker? I do not know.

Here’s Jon’s careful research made of accurate screen caps:

Jon’s Flickr screen caps from ’78 Glasgow

Also, George has terrific images that proove no doubts it’s a 2203 (or 3 stager) and likely Schaffer Vegas high antennas all around:

Geroge’s flickr

 

Thanks again to both of you for this terrific job.

EDIT: Jon, it was YOUR screen caps that made me go back to the latest update up above, Thanks man, those grabs are great. It’s just that the leather soft case with light reflections made it seem a silver box at first; instead, it’s probably a backup TX unit OR a battery pack for the Transmitter inside the guitar!

 

Help? (about the booster)

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

Update: Whole Lotta Rosie attempt from “If You Want Blood, You’ve Got It” (LIVE 1978).

I was NEVER in my life able to reach this closeness in tone and reaction from the guitar. Used the VEGA and the triboost on Red combined, as it may have been in the video below.

You judge, please?

Whole Lotta Rosie

 

__________________________________________________

Again, so excited I can barely write.

I am trying to calm down right now.

 

You read right though: it’s done.

You may have read in the past days  – month likely – that I used to think that the LTBR tone was in the Vega.

Well, it is not. Since I had it the other day, I tried everything. Even the rear boost, which is almost the same – in tone and boost level – as the front one.

So I started thinking. And thinking. Did Angus really use a boost on LTBR? He said he never used any “effects”. Right.

With the exception of a boost though. He DID use it.

Not only this: but on the “If You Want Blood You’ve Got It” he also uses in conjunction the Schaffer Vega AND The boost.

Now please follow me closely, as I will demonstrate this to you at first with images and interviews; later on, I will do a sound test.

First off, please concentrate on this screen shot: it’s poor, but it’s KEY.

Now tell me: what the HECK is THIS? (LOOK AT THE SILVER BOX!!!!)

[singlepic id=477 w=1024 h=768 float=]

(from [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qB5eQc5V20[/youtube])

 

For quite some time, I had been thiniing it was the VEGA transmitter.

Right? WRONG. At THIS time, the Vega transmitter HAD BEEN INSTALLED INSIDE THE GUITAR. Earlier video footage show clearly that Angus did NOT have anything attached to his strap; additionally, the output jack of the guitar had been put in another position.

Furthermore, the SHAPE of the transmitter already at the time had the same color and shape of mine.

Proof? Late 1970s actual product shot:

[singlepic id=444 w=1024 h=768 float=]

So WHAT IS IT? Well brother, it’s THIS:

(PLEASE NOTE: these are pictures of the current replica; the original one – still to be indentified exaclty – might have had less knobs, maybe just the stomp switch, as it seems to be the only visible thing there, compatible with a treble boost only: PLEASE RUN and help me research!)

 

EDIT: Probably FOUND(?). Pete Cornish designed in… 1977 (HA) a mini treble booster for Queen. I think Angus bought one almost immediately.

Picture (look at the silver box, likely without bypass stomp-switch here):

from:

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/queen.html

Quoting:

In 1977 I designed a new miniature version of the TB, with exactly the same characteristics, and this is the one that I am still building – now known, by Queen fans, as the “Original TB-83” and the “TB-83 Extra” (with volume and bypass switch). (The Miniature Single TB and the Double TB Extra are shown on the photo “B. May Old Board + 3X PC TB”).


 

Whatever it was, maybe not that one, but I am almost certain 100% it was a copy of a “Dallas Rangemaster” in a more compact form. Isn’t it funny in its name, lol? Basically, it IS a treble boost. Also known widely as “Germanium boost”.

So I just opened mine this morning (replica).

It’s a well known treble/mid boost of the ’70s in a compact form.

 

Jesus.

Dimesnions match perfectly. Look and compare the size of the box with the strap. I have a similar strap, it just matches perfectly.

Also, possibly, at some point we see an unplugged jack coming off of Angus’ in those few “If You Want Blood You’ve Got it” videos. I think it is on “Fling Ting” that you see an unplugged jack.

I think Angus had the option of using or not using the treble booster.

Whaterver it was, I just plugged this boost into the 1959 WITHOUT the Vega for now, because I wanted to check FIRST LTBR tone. It does match!

So in conclusion: On Let There Be Rock (the album) Angus didn’t have the Vega yet.

We DO know this because Bon stated that the first time he had seen Angus with it was into a live situation AFTER the recording of LTBR. We have the interview on one previous post here.

But the above video DOES SHOW that Angus was wireless. Also, there is that box, which just mateches perfectly.

ALSO the TONE on “If You Want Blood” DOES SHOW (audio) that the boost was there. In fact, I had been trying yesterday to re-play “Whole Lotta Rosie” from that album, but I wasn’t able to: the Vega alone is too dark to match the tone of “If You Want Blood”!

Jesus I am SO excited.

 

 

 

avatar
Fil "SoloDallas" Olivieri
sd@solodallas.com

We Are Rock 'N Roll People.

163 Comments
  • avatar
    Dries
    Posted at 17:05h, 10 September

    Maybe more evidence here, on this picture from the booklet in the powerage album, you can see the neumann mic in front of a cabinet. On top of that cab, a mastervolume amp. Did we knew this already ? You can see the placement a bit too, pretty standard..

    Checkt it out ! [IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/sl5pnq.png[/IMG]

  • avatar
    manuel-ell
    Posted at 16:05h, 19 April

    Guys, what’s your opinion an the 498T pickup which comes with the gibson’s SG standard? Do you have a solution for all that much treble! :s

    • avatar
      banane
      Posted at 16:11h, 19 April

      Had the same problem, built in a AY signature pickup. Very great tone.

  • avatar
    Angusrocks
    Posted at 11:57h, 18 April
  • avatar
    manuel-ell
    Posted at 04:25h, 18 April

    Hi SD, awesome tone! you really got that LTBR tone going on!!! I have jus bought a Gibson SG Standard but i feel the treble pickup (at least to my ears) sounds too trebly, what setup would you recommend me to do to make it sound less trebly and with an AC/DC tone.
    BTW my amp is a full state marshall, I don´t know if the sound it´s due to the amp :S
    Cheers form Mexico!

    • avatar
      banane
      Posted at 07:31h, 18 April

      Hi Manuel, I think it’s both the solid state amp and the guitar, but more the guitar. I own a SG standard too and changed the pickup bridge (treble) last weekend to an Angus Young signature pickup and after changing a lot of the treble is gone. It seems like this pickup has so much power that it’s working already like a little treble boost.
      But before changing your pickup too, try to adjust it with the tone pot and the mids/treble controls on the amp. Cheers back from Austria :)

      • avatar
        Angusrocks
        Posted at 08:57h, 18 April

        Hi Franz,
        quite normal, that a lot of treble has gone.
        The Angus Young Signature pickup is just a Gibson 57 classic humbucker wih more bass a usual.

        • avatar
          banane
          Posted at 09:20h, 18 April

          Hi Henning, good to hear. I’m lacking the experience here. Yes, it was a big surprise for me because I knew only this one sound. And I always wondered why my recordings were often too harsh.

          • avatar
            Angusrocks
            Posted at 10:13h, 18 April

            Now you know (-:
            Did a little update in the past weeks. I bought myself Groovetubes, a matched pair of E34LS Gold Series. Wonderful open sound and even closer to ACDCs sound ! My recommending to these tubes. They are fantastic.
            Changed my speakers as well. Sold my Vintage 30s and installed Greenbacks instead.
            A lot more into ACDC, yet.
            Now i`m very happy with my gear. I just waiting for the vegareplica now to complete my ACDCsound and make it original.

            • avatar
              banane
              Posted at 11:53h, 18 April

              Hehe, congrats to your new gear then :) Will keep the tubes in mind for the next change.
              I’m still thinking about changing my G12T75s to Greenbacks but I’m unsure about how much this will change the tone.

              • avatar
                Angusrocks
                Posted at 12:18h, 18 April

                a few weeks ago i was in the same situation like you, i thought, how big will be the difference between the 30s and the Greenbacks ? Would it be that much ? Does it makes sense to change ? However, i changed the speakers and i was impressed how big the difference was.
                The 30s have these highmids and together with the already trebly sound of the JMP it sounds awful. The Greenbacks are wayyy softer warmer and have that fine bass. Those are fitting to the trebly JMP just perfect ! Try èm (-:

              • avatar
                06AngusSG
                Posted at 17:23h, 18 April

                I think you would be plenty suprised how much the sound would change. A friend of mine has the G12T75’s and compared to my GB & V30 the sound is WAY different. Even the difference between my 2 speakers is astounding when I mic and record them sererately. :)

                • avatar
                  banane
                  Posted at 11:45h, 19 April

                  Hm, then I need Greenbacks too. Looking out for some used ones on egay…

                  • avatar
                    Angusrocks
                    Posted at 12:05h, 19 April

                    good idea and good luck friend!

                  • avatar
                    SoloDallas
                    Posted at 13:03h, 19 April

                    Franz, you know I have four reissues G12Ms that are for sale, right? Only speakers, no cab.

                    • avatar
                      banane
                      Posted at 13:44h, 19 April

                      Ah yes, forgot that. Will send you a mail.

  • avatar
    RiffRaff713
    Posted at 21:44h, 17 April

    Fil if you put the audio of the whole lotta rosie update and an image of ACDC into a video and put it on youtube. I’m sure poeple would think that they are listening to Angus.

  • avatar
    Dries
    Posted at 10:13h, 17 April

    Wow, the vega must have an enormous effect. My 2204 really doesn’t come very close to that tone. But I’m getting good results with a +10dB transmitter boost from a shure wireless, and a little bit extra compression (as the modern wirelesses don’t compress very much).

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 01:09h, 17 April

    Alright… so… No treble boost after all? XP

    Well… All hail the 2203! HAIL! 😛

    I have to grab one of these in a near future XD
    That, and a Metro Super Lead.

    Again Fil, you got even closer! :)
    Congrats! 😛

  • avatar
    Hyce
    Posted at 00:14h, 17 April

    I’ve been listening to the latest Whole Lotta Rosie and I’m having trouble figuring out if Fil’s actually playing in it or not. Just found out… Two solos… The rhythm was 100% spot on… couldn’t even tell it was another guitar. Hearing the solo over two speakers is what gave it away… simply astounding, Fil.

  • avatar
    Devil'Fingers"
    Posted at 22:35h, 16 April

    This is really fantastic sound! I love it, kocham to, Ich liebe das!
    Btw, do you know that some recordings from If you want blood album are probably not recorded in Glasgow, perhaps in Munchen.

  • avatar
    Ant
    Posted at 22:32h, 16 April

    WOW! Fil yet another stride in the wright direction

    Question, have you bathed yet since the new vega? lol

  • avatar
    gamerboy96
    Posted at 22:28h, 16 April

    wow. for a minuite i thought you just uploaded the song :L but its you fil and you are a “tone chaser” as they say and hot damn you nailed it. well done. i wish i had the equipment like you, im getting my first gibson soon i cant wait 😀 (its an ebony sg standard)

  • avatar
    KyleSG
    Posted at 20:35h, 16 April

    Killer tone :) to think how far we have come as a group!

  • avatar
    06AngusSG
    Posted at 19:21h, 16 April

    This is even better than the “neighbor” partial…Haha!!!!! 😛

    NAILED IT!!!!

    Fil
    Last night before bed (& this update) I was taking more shots from the “Plug Me IN” Glasgow vids. Found some more & better shots of “the box” I do think it IS silver. What it IS IDK. ❓

    George:
    I also stumbled on a few instances of the “antenna” you were showing. The shots are from Glasgow and at The ’78 rock goes to college. :)

    All new shots are at the link to my Flickr in the post above. 😉

  • avatar
    SCgrad98
    Posted at 19:07h, 16 April

    Hey Fil,

    Awesome tones! Thanks for the detailed info. I was wondering, which (speakers) cab were you using with the 2203 & Vega? I’m having a hard time deciding to upgrade to older G12M or G12H Celestions. The reissues aren’t cutting it for me!

  • avatar
    ar2619Rob
    Posted at 18:11h, 16 April

    It’s marvellous, from the opening bar I thought ‘hello this sounds promising’, the drive is perfect. I also think that all the settings you’ve listed add ‘circumstantial evidence’ based on quotes of Angus. The Vega and m.v JMP, I feel was his consistent set up from late ’77 to early ’80.
    Bravo!
    I may now become a nuisance of the ‘where’s my re-issue vega damn you’ type. If I was you I’d scrap the project and keep it all to yourself, lol.

    • avatar
      SGACE
      Posted at 18:32h, 16 April

      It is not fair Rob… knowledge must be shared… LOL

  • avatar
    HagusYoung
    Posted at 17:46h, 16 April

    That sounds kick ass, so much more agressive drive. Fits in very nice, and also close to the LTBR album. You still got the LTBR multitrack record ? Im comparing right now, and I’m truly shocked 😀

Post A Comment