UPDATED: Back and Hacked! New Developments, The BIB Album Tone & Playing debunked

Stereo Center

21 Feb UPDATED: Back and Hacked! New Developments, The BIB Album Tone & Playing debunked

 

Update is added to the end of the post!

 

Howdy Fellow members!,

Ant here writing up a brand new post…. for a while i have been brewing something special and i don’t mean in the flatulence sense!

First let me just put out there that i am not an audio engineer nor a hacker of any sort!! πŸ˜› what i will be posting here is purely findings from my own research and experimentation with audio and various freebie software that’s on the net.

Tone searching, equalizing and listening is what i have been working hard on over the last year or two, searching ways, trying things out purely for the purpose of making decent original studio or live backing tracks from the original AC DC recordings and playing along with them. Of course in the beginning (not in 1955!) i was a complete newbie to the world of audio\listening and its theory but over time i came to learn more and progressed finding new techniques and using the tools readily available to me. Only recently (couple weeks) i stumbled across an amazing tool but i will cover this later on……Β  i know what your thinking so don’t even think of skipping the next bit!! πŸ˜›

Now i will leave you to have a quick listen to these two sound samples….

 

Angus (not Fil)

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10276″]

Malcolm (again.. not Fil :D)

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10244″]

 

Hi Welcome back! :-)

Sound familiar? Now you’re either wondering what the hell was that!? some of you may think “WOW” and others “Meh” but this my dear friends is something that will aid us in the very depths of our reason for being here.. to debunk and break down what the Young brothers are doing on these great albums and recreate the very pleasure playing it!.

So! what DO! we have here, well we are hearing Angus and Malcolm’s guitars INDIVIDUALLY yes its in bold and caps ^^ this allows us to listen even closer than before to boldly go where *cough* got to stop its star trek! wrong place for it, originally we were just muting either channel and monoing the one we wanted to listen too but THIS is an extraction of the very essence in the tack. There are artifacts in the audio yes this is inevitable but only because that the very frequencies they are on are being shared with the other instruments and vocals.

 

HOW? Well that’s a good question, its quite simple really (i say this after months of searching Doh! same old story!)

First it was just 5.1 audacity..

initially for live i would whip out the DVDs imported the 5.1 tracks essentially breaking up the instruments/vocals to a certain degree and the re-piece them taking out either Angus or Malcolm and exporting in a stereo format. Didn’t always work as you can still hear them in the mix and of-course it didn’t work for studio albums either as they were not 5.1

Next we have Riffstation..

Now this is a great piece of software as it analyses in on both stereo channels, it lets you dynamically whip out a specific section of the stereo with additional filtration.. i wont go into to much details but i would suggest checking it out! this software works wonders on some of the Young’s live performances

Third Audacity Phase cancellation!

another method i used to use was phase cancellation..yep i used the idea of mic phase.. by inverting one channel (make both tracks mono) the frequencies that matched each other canceled each other out leaving both guitars in a mono state in a single track, i then used this mono dual guitar track inverted it and then placed it back on the original track mono-ed again and inverted to cancel out the guitars πŸ˜› nifty eh? didn’t always work to well but it was better than nothing at the time.

Then GoldWave.. ever heard of this one?

Well this little bad boy just made my day…

First let me cast you back in time… one day i was walking down the street singing do a dee a dede dum *cough* listening to the usual back in black and my headphone cable popped out of my phone just slightly now what happened to my ears was beyond a miracle i could hear Malcolm’s playing as clear as you could say dede do! i was thinking oh crap why is this happening its incredible (for me). So i started experimenting, Google searching and fiddling with cables to try and record what i was hearing but just couldn’t get it to work so here i was with a set of headphones that let me into the track that most people may never have heard before! oh the irony!… time past i went through all my tricks mentioned above until phase cancellation it became clear to me that the headphones connectors were jumping over each other and the tracks were inverting on each other!

Back to GoldWave, this little gem lets me dynamically remove/extract sections that are played from left, Center and Right with the use of a plugin called Stereo Center.
Download it and then the plugin and have a play! its free… for a while πŸ˜›

I haven’t read about how it works but it uses some advanced processing technique called Fast Fourier Transform… its beyond me to so cant explain any of it ^^ (rocket science)

I’m sure from here on with these audio extracts it will bring us that little bit closer to solving the mystery’s behind these great albums!
again im no sound engineer of any sort but some of you may have already witnessed these tools or even have better ones but the difference is im sharing my findings here for the benefit of the cause

 

Sound is wonderful thing.. the more you listen the more you learn and enjoy it.

I will leave you with a couple more for listening, i hope you enjoy them as much as i do.

 

What do you do? Angus & Malcolm

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10268″]

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10270″]

 

Shoot to Thrill Angus & Malcolm

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10265″]

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10267″]

 

Until next time πŸ˜‰

Yours
Ant

 

UPDATE: Goldwave additional detail and a few Solo Snippets

Couple of people have been giving it a go so i thought it would be good to update the post with a bit more support on the goldwave program to assist others venturing into doing it themselves :)

 

First off download Goldwave from there website

Install

Open a track that you have from one of your CD’s or downloaded Albums (iTunes ect)

Click Effects

Click Stereo

Click Stereo Center

This is what you should have.

Stereo Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Choose either side/center to remove/isolate and change the 4x to 16x (better quality) FFT leave as default and click OK

File SAVE AS
give it a name, save and Bingo your done!

Happy Times!

 

Also been wanting to post these few solo snippets with added initial findings listening to them, Enjoy

 

Hells Bells – You can hear some sort of tape delay or re verb kick in part way though the solo.. hear it?

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10477″]

Shake a Leg – This particular solo is one of the solos that was partly redone at electric lady land without the SVDS… can you hear when it changes? πŸ˜‰

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10479″]

Rock and Roll ain’t Noise Pollution – Those vibratos are killer! notice how its all one take for the solo track? truly amazing

[jwplayer config=”Standard Player” mediaid=”10478″]

 

Drop a comment in this post if you have trouble and i will respond

End of Update! :)

avatar
Anthony Portlock
anthony240788@hotmail.co.uk

I am a obsessed fan of ACDC \../ also on the road to rocking with their songs Gibson SG Standard 2004 Epiphone Les Paul special limited edition 1998 Guitar Rig 5 have been playing for a few years on and off but playing seriously now for 5 years. Rock on!

47 Comments
  • avatar
    Guillotine
    Posted at 18:02h, 28 June

    Is there a way to slow the track down without lowering the pitch?

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 10:51h, 30 June

      Howdy!

      you can use audacity to slow it down there is a little tool in the top right corner with a green play button and a slider bar to up or lower the speed, im sure there is a tool in gold-wave that can also do the same but i have never used it OR if your just playing it back to listen to as a one off you can just use windows media player or VLC media player they have options for slowing down too!

  • avatar
    LSD
    Posted at 21:00h, 08 May

    I’ve been doing this for years, surprised so many people didn’t actually know about it.

  • avatar
    stefano915
    Posted at 21:59h, 04 March

    grande Fil grazie a queste tracks ho migliorato molto i soli!!!
    grazie milleeeeee!!!

  • avatar
    Soloepi
    Posted at 14:14h, 28 February

    Thanks for your awesome efforts and insight, Ant! Freaking awesome I might add. I too had picked up on tinkering with my headphone jack to hear Angus and Malcolm’s guitars in isolation πŸ˜‰
    I’ve downloaded Goldwave now, and am currently working on removing noise and brick-walling both guitars and the center track of basically all tracks I have a hold of on my hard drive… Ang and Mal’s guitar work is even more spectacular without bleed from each other’s channels!

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 14:27h, 28 February

      Thank you! im glad that people are having a go at this, im hoping it will spark more playing talk and sharing each others findings now that a few of us can listen to the same extracts :)

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 14:34h, 28 February

      oh question if i may.. your gear, do you plug a real amp into guitar rig and use it for the cabinet emulation? im thinking of going down this route πŸ˜›

      • avatar
        Soloepi
        Posted at 14:19h, 01 March

        Hiya Ant! Of course I will upload some sound extracts! And yes, I do run my amp into GR for cabinet emulation. If you do go this route, just be sure to get a USB interface, as running the amp directly into the computer is not only bad for it’s transformer, but may blow up your sound card in the process, especially if your amp puts out 20 watts or more. I would suggest the Avid Mbox 3 Mini or something of that nature.
        Thanks again for your endeavors, and good luck with future ones πŸ˜€

        Best regards, Blake

        • avatar
          AngusRudd1019
          Posted at 21:08h, 01 March

          So you use the speaker output on the amp and put that into the interface?

          • avatar
            Dries
            Posted at 23:14h, 01 March

            NEVER EVER turn the amp on without load

  • avatar
    manuke
    Posted at 09:48h, 27 February

    Ant, you are now officially my hero. First listen – Malcolm on ‘Kicked in the Teeth’. Holy. Shit. Thanks so much.

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 14:28h, 28 February

      Your very much welcome :) every one here is a hero! ^^

  • avatar
    d1m1
    Posted at 16:06h, 23 February

    thanks for posting fil!

    • avatar
      KyleSG
      Posted at 18:21h, 23 February

      Fil never posted User Ant did :)

      • avatar
        d1m1
        Posted at 20:08h, 23 February

        LOL ok then thanks for posting ant! πŸ˜€

  • avatar
    Dave4433
    Posted at 16:20h, 22 February

    When Angus starts soloing without the SVDS in Shake a Leg it sounds a lot like the LTBR tone, at least to me it does =)

    • avatar
      KyleSG
      Posted at 17:32h, 22 February

      Yeah you can totally tell when the solo changes on shake a leg. Also when using the program hit preset left or right side and move the center back to zero when on left or right and it will sound more normal again with the rest of the band back in accept the guitar on what side your trying to isolate.

  • avatar
    Ant
    Posted at 19:47h, 21 February

    Post updated, Enjoy Chaps! :)

  • avatar
    Arash
    Posted at 07:50h, 20 February

    Fil: Can you please do Malc on Night Prowler and Ang on Evil Walks. These are the two tracks I think no-one has deciphered correctly on the internet yet.

    • avatar
      Arash
      Posted at 07:55h, 20 February

      …sorry, meant Ant! Awesome, awesome job on these isolations bro.

      • avatar
        Ant
        Posted at 10:50h, 20 February

        Hi Partner!
        no worries πŸ˜‰ , i would share every debunk but i have to be careful not to expose this is site to copy right infringements.. don’t want to get into any troubles πŸ˜‰

        however i can urge you (and everyone reading) to give it a try for yourself, its quite straight forward!

        Download Goldwave, then the Stereo Center Plugin and bobs you’re uncle you can now “split” the band to some degree

        let me know if you have troubles getting it working ^^

        • avatar
          Spellbound
          Posted at 03:09h, 21 February

          Listen to Ant – it’s very simple to use (well, for this purpose at least :lol:). You can get it unlicensed for free and export the separated track as an MP3 if you want.

          It’s really interesting how differently things were mixed across each album. Definitely give it a go not just to learn the songs, but to hear how differently things were done from say Powerage to Flick!

          • avatar
            Ant
            Posted at 10:11h, 21 February

            im tempted to purchase it ^^ im already 800 commands into the 2000 command limit πŸ˜€

        • avatar
          KyleSG
          Posted at 17:11h, 21 February

          Downloaded goldwave but can’t find the stereo plug in.

          • avatar
            Ant
            Posted at 18:48h, 21 February

            Hi Kyle,

            luckily its already included in version 5.7

            should be listed on the toolbar under Effect – Stereo – Stereo Center…

            boom you will then have the power! :)

            NOTE: if your saving the track after making changes make SURE that you don’t overwrite the original track you imported click file SAVE AS.. i made that silly mistake myself… πŸ˜›

            • avatar
              KyleSG
              Posted at 20:39h, 21 February

              Awesome Ant found it thanks a lot :)

  • avatar
    Spellbound
    Posted at 07:37h, 12 February

    It sounds like Mal’s using a power chord instead of an open G in first part of STT’s pre-chorus…. Wonder why he went to the open chord whenever he plays it live?

    • avatar
      Spellbound
      Posted at 07:38h, 12 February

      Also, fucking AWESOME stuff you discovered here, Ant. Think we can use this to figure out what the hell is going on in Fly and Video? πŸ˜†

      • avatar
        Ant
        Posted at 13:49h, 12 February

        why thank you Spell! ^^

        this works on any audio so long as it stereo! :) you would just need to extract the audio from the video and then use the stereo center plugin with goldwave

        • avatar
          Spellbound
          Posted at 23:46h, 14 February

          I’ve been playing around with it a lot. Separating Mal form the rest of the bad on Powerage… wow! It’s like the rest of the band isn’t even there. Yet, if you do the same with a song from Flick, you can still hear Ang and the band pretty well. I can tell why some people think it sounds like a demo.

          • avatar
            Ant
            Posted at 01:36h, 15 February

            Glad u have been having a good go at it! Well i havnt looked many albums past bib but i can most certainly say the anything before HTH is much easier to crack simply because the mixing was more.. well simple :)

            Aint it fun playing along to those albums! πŸ˜€

            • avatar
              Spellbound
              Posted at 07:53h, 21 February

              Man, i really have to thank you for discovering this. Meltdown, Let Me Put My Love in You, among others have been SO MUCH easier to figure out! Thank you so much for putting this up for everyone to try out! πŸ˜€

  • avatar
    livewiredmike
    Posted at 21:48h, 11 February

    Great job Ant! About 15 yrs ago, my rhythm guitarist and I discovered the same thing with his portable CD player. We’d drive to the gigs listening to these individual parts. We thought it was a glitchy cable. We never explored it further. You really can hear the strumming from both Mal and Ang!

  • avatar
    bschart73
    Posted at 05:22h, 09 February

    Fil – would love to hear You Shook Me done the same way!

    BrianS

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 16:36h, 10 February

      Hi Brian,

      i will be posting an update soon with a couple of tid bit solos and possibly shook me

      i need to be careful as to what we post here.. don’t want to have any copyright infringements πŸ˜‰

  • avatar
    Chris Moiny
    Posted at 08:47h, 08 February

    Great stuff, thanks a lot Ant, I think this is going to help a lot of us for the future !

    And curious how ‘ different ‘ Mal sounds on WhatDoYou … It’s not as clean as he used to play. Hmmm, mysteries , love it πŸ˜€

  • avatar
    lautmaschine
    Posted at 07:40h, 08 February

    Nice find indeed. Never used a plugin that works quite like that before. Thanks for sharing this.

  • avatar
    Guillotine
    Posted at 02:13h, 08 February

    Wow, this is going to be amazing for learning songs by ear. I’ve heard some things I’ve never heard before there. And wow, I never realized how good Malcolm’ playing and sound is compared to Angus. Angus sounds kinda thin and rushed. Maybe it’s just the frequencies that got taken out though.

  • avatar
    JaiminhoPagina
    Posted at 23:07h, 07 February

    Very interesting!!

    I can hear clearly what each of them is playing! And it actually sounds a lot like all “normal” people do when recording guitar tracks, if you know what I mean. Fascinating. When you put both tracks together and with the rest of the band – only then – the magic fully happens.

    Also, for the gear lunatics like myself…. Mal seems to sound a bit different on BiB and WDYDFMH. Is it just me? I hear brighter and more driven (and nasal, as Franz said). 2203 maybe?
    Shoot to Thrill sounds more like his usual sound. Darker, warm and fat.

    • avatar
      Ant
      Posted at 23:11h, 07 February

      Glad were on the same wave length! :)

      Yep hearing all the differences, i have yet to listen to every track!

      • avatar
        JaiminhoPagina
        Posted at 23:19h, 07 February

        Now, forgetting all the gear crap, just listen to how Ang and Mal are strumming the G chord at the end of the chorus on BiB. Have anyone actually ever got that right before? Sounds like about only 6 or 7 strokes for Mal, some of them almost not touching the strings.

        • avatar
          Ant
          Posted at 23:28h, 07 February

          we are only scraping the surface of what there doing!

          Malcolm’s playing towards the end of shoot to thrill give me the chills :)

        • avatar
          Ant
          Posted at 00:12h, 08 February

          One thing to note is that Angus at the beginning of BIB is playing a almost center position overdub which fattens up the sound once you get past 30-2 secs you her it thin out and then only one guitar is heard

          On the track i posted its hardly noticeable but still there, have a listen to the original stereo and focus on the center you will hear it and then stops before Brian kicks in with the vocals

    • avatar
      rjofig
      Posted at 19:07h, 08 February

      Very cool, Ant!
      Jaiminho: Indeed individually it sounds like “normal people” but when put the band together, the it’s greater than the sum of all parts!
      Ant: Fast Fourier Transform, wave length, phase cancellation, looks like you should develop the electrical engineer side of you :)
      Cheers!

      • avatar
        Ant
        Posted at 21:35h, 08 February

        lol you never know πŸ˜‰ its one of those things that i just find fascinating along with music.. its the perfect blend πŸ˜€

        will be posting some solos samples soon!

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